Foresight podcast from SCI launches with retail & manufacturing expert Shaun Kokott

In the Foresight podcast's debut, Dom Burch hosts Shaun Kokott, an SCI retail and manufacturing expert, shedding light on the evolving landscape of compliance, certification, and supply chains. 

Shaun's journey from South Africa to the UK showcases his extensive background in food safety, quality, regulatory, and compliance across various sectors including FMCG, food production, and certification.

A central theme Shaun discusses is the dramatic shift in food fraud over the past two decades. He highlights the sophistication of fraud, where criminals have migrated from traditional illicit activities to the food sector, producing substandard goods or mislabeling products to exploit market value. An example given is the substitution of sugar syrup for honey. 

This shift underscores the need for stringent industry vigilance and technological advancements to combat fraud and improve product traceability.
Shaun emphasises the transformative role of technology in the food industry, particularly in enhancing traceability and auditing processes. He shares an example of a fish site in Grimsby that exemplified unprecedented traceability efficiency, underscoring the potential of technology to streamline operations and ensure food safety. 

The conversation also touches on the concept of "earned trust," advocating for a shift from traditional, time-bound audits to continuous, transparent processes that facilitate trust and compliance throughout the supply chain.

Shaun elaborates on SCI's focus on sustainability and CSR, particularly in helping retailers in Asia develop low carbon options for their products. He mentions engaging directly with farms to measure and improve carbon footprints, reflecting SCI's proactive stance in addressing global sustainability challenges.

Shaun's insights into the future of the food industry focus on combating food fraud and ensuring the health and safety of consumers through advancements in technology and stricter supply chain control. He stresses the importance of authentic, nourishing food and the role of AI in enhancing supply chain traceability and reducing fraud.

This episode not only showcases Shaun's expertise and SCI's innovative projects but also reflects on the broader implications for the food industry's future, emphasising the necessity of embracing technology and innovation to address contemporary challenges.

Transcript

Dom Burch: 0:11

Welcome to the first ever podcast for SCI - Supply Chain In-Sites. This is a podcast called Foresight, where we speak to thought leaders from across the sector to discover what's going on in the world of compliance in certification, and supply chains. I'm delighted this week to welcome onto the first podcast Shaun Kokott, who is, well, Shawn, you can explain who you are in relation to ser, you're an experienced food safety, quality regulatory and compliance individual and you've worked across FMCG environments within food production certification, mass catering, I'm going to stop there because the list goes on and on. Shawn, welcome to foresight. Thank you. So tell me a bit about you. What is your background and what what brings you to being at SCI.

Shaun Kokott: 0:56

I started out in South Africa, having studied and got food degree in food science, and then moved over to the UK and started working in the manufacturing industry, predominantly in technical worlds. So working my way up from the shop floor as a QA and QC right up to a technical manager where I ran production sites. So within that journey, I have worked for companies like Cargill, and then also companies like New England seafood who are quite predominantly supplying into your retailers. So having worked with retailers I've worked with, with all the retailers over the years, very much on the manufacturing side into retailers as opposed to working for retailers. And then I've also worked for a food service company called bad food at the time, it was called Three double six, three or bid verse three, double six, three. And then I've also worked for a company called NSF, which deals with certification, predominately working in their second and third party auditing.

Dom Burch: 1:51

And I guess it must have been at NSF then were you bumped into some of the other parts of the the SCI team, Rob Chester, and Diane and so forth.

Shaun Kokott: 1:58

Indeed. So yeah, so I've worked alongside Rob and Kay and I just in various avenues, but predominantly was in the second party and third party certification, as opposed to the agricultural side, which I believe the rest of them kind of worked in a lot of.

Dom Burch: 2:13

So you must have seen a huge amount of change over the last, what, 20 years, right from studying in South Africa to then working through the food sector. What are the things that stand out to you that you've really noticed? And, and maybe there's some frustration in there, right? Because I'm sure there's things that you were probably working on 10 years ago, and you thought, Oh, my goodness, are we still where we are now, just talk me through some of those examples.

Shaun Kokott: 2:36

What I've seen over the last sort of 20 years in the UK is differently improvement, just specifically around food fraud, and also production and improvement of production of goods. The food fraud really is the area that that has become a real concern. And it's becoming a more and more focus, because what we've seen is a lot of criminals have actually left enterprises, such as dealing in drugs, like cocaine, heroin, and things like that, you actually come into the food sector to produce substandard goods or goods that have contained contaminants, such that they can get more volume and more product, if you will, out of that, or substitution. So for instance, using sugar syrup and in place of honey, and then labelling it as honey to really get more sort of lucrative, as opposed to the other industries that they've that they've been in.

Dom Burch: 3:28

And other things, though, that you know, because I remember talking to you previously, when you were saying that capturing of data, you know, been able to conduct an audit remotely, all of these things that like increasingly technologies helping pave the way for some of that stuff has been around for a little while. Talk me through some of those examples where you know, when you were in your old world, you're able to access that information at the touch of a button, because even now, that's not typical as in the food sector.

Shaun Kokott: 3:57

As I said before, I've worked for some real big US conglomerates, UK conglomerates, and when I've seen though, is some technologies. So probably going back about 12 years now. It was a very small fish site out in Grimsby. They weren't really on the map in the world of sort of retailers to forget, but that produced a lot of whitefish, but what I did see in that Pacific site was at the touch of a button, they were able to produce a traceability exercise. That really today I have never seen something so sophisticated. So you've got all these systems out there. We conduct audits as part of our programme here at ACI And so we and we go to some big factories, some smaller factories and then some real sort of husband and wife sort of facilities that they run or just partner facilities that run smaller businesses, but even in the large facilities. Traceability is usually set at a four hour timeframe. So you set the traceability exercise people go away and find the information that you need relation to it to so product going back to their company in Grimsby, literally I gave them information that they needed, they hit a few keys on the keyboard. And instantaneously they had a traceability exercise. And I've never seen anything so sophisticated, since. And that's really where I see technology really helping the industry driving things forward,

Dom Burch: 5:35

And people talk a lot about earned trust don't make improving times on site. For instance, if an auditor goes to these days in terms of, you know, if you think the auditing process was really about, you know, validating and ensuring site there for hours to do, truss bridge size gets reduced that a particular site or a particular supplier or a down to literally less than 10 minutes. So technology can particular factory was adhering to all the standards that you'd expect. And therefore, you could trust it, you could trust that, you know, all the compliance measures have arrived, and that food was safe, and all those good things. But it's only ever a moment in time. And I guess there's always a suspicion, particularly from the customers and the retailers. And perhaps, that, you know, people are gamifying that system or they know that the auditors coming or they make sure they look really really help the industry in that regard. spic and span on the day that they're tested. But you know, the 364 other days of the year, whereas in an urn trust model, I guess what you're doing there as a, you've got nothing to hide, right. So you're willing to share your information. In fact, you want that information to be readily available and to be dynamic, because you want to get on and do a good job. And then that just de risks you in the eyes of the customer. Surely that makes you more of a earned trust manufacturer.

Shaun Kokott: 6:35

Indeed so, going back to the sort of traditional auditing, if you will, it is very much a snapshot in time. So you go to a site you bought at that site. And as you say, if it's an unannounced audit, they know that you're coming, they know the time and the date, and they are able to ready their their sights for such visits. As I say, I've been on that side of the table, most of my career, I know exactly what's needed. And most industry professionals do know what's needed in to ensure a positive result on an audit. I'm not saying that people cheat the system. But there are ways to be to be able to manage that that audit, if you will, if what you do see in no manufacturing practices, in most sites, on an on a non audit day, if it was an audit, the auditor would have many, many questions. That said though, you also get unannounced audits. But again, it's a window. So maybe it's a three month, four month window. And again, the site is able to kind of determine when the auditor will come to site. And they're able to manage the site a lot better than their normal, but that again in on the positive spin that didn't drive standards. So that improve standards within the factory. So it shows the both the managers and the employees on the shop floor that you can better your standards. And you can improve things as things move forward. And we have seen an improvement over time on that, given the most recent sort of COVID error that we had. And given that people weren't really able to get out and do things, we did see an increase in remote audits. So as you say, documentation was sent across auditors to review and in the privacy of their own home or potentially in, you know, at a location which which was secure. As a workplace, maybe that was being sort of monitored during that time. So people were able to go in at different times and have access, people were then able to review those those documents. And then they were then able to also do remote auditing, you could dial in via platforms like zoom or teams or the such like, and you could actually walk around with a technical manager on site. And they could go to different locations within that site, and you'll be able to do a remote audit.

Dom Burch: 8:50

So let's talk a little bit about some of the work you're doing right now for Sei, because sei is this amazing organisation, right? It's quite a small group of people. But we're the years and years of experience and talent having operated at some of the higher echelons both on both sides, you know, as you say, in the retail sector in the manufacturing sector, but also you know, previously at NSF and places like that. So just bring to light if you can some of the projects you're working on and how you go about doing that and what your sort of area of expertise because as I understand it, everyone at SCI almost has a little carved out area within the organisation.

Shaun Kokott: 9:24

I currently head up the retail and supply chain space with within Sei. My expertise is very much in the manufacturing sector, but being on the shop floor, if you will, with within the production facilities and then also dealing with the various retailers and food service clients and customers you're very quickly able to understand the different needs of the clients and the standards of those clients as around food safety, food quality, and and so forth and what your factory needs to do to ensure those changes. We currently do some second party auditing or what some clients, which is a bespoke standard that they determined that they need for their specific suppliers. So we have teams of auditors that go out and audit those facilities, much getting into the consultancy space, which we which we believe is definitely the future of this industry where, as I mentioned before, technology plays a key role. So we currently helping some suppliers develop product lifecycle management systems. Specifically with within that we were looking at specification systems that we are able to then build the best in class, if you will. We have two major projects on like this with a very predominant global retailer where we helping them set up and drive a product lifecycle management system, in which we're focusing quite heavily on helping them set up a specification system that really will ensure the best in class when it comes to ensuring that all their suppliers send across the most accurate information that they have of their supply chains. Another customer that we're working with, we are helping them instal and set up new kitchen designs within their facility such that they can ensure that food is made and kept at the correct temperatures to ensure no untoward food safety issues that is served on the on the premises. But what's interesting with this specific client is that we are designing and setting up things in basement levels of their facility. So there is a challenge, and a good challenge in how we design and set up that facility to drive Food Safety and Quality.

Dom Burch: 11:46

What would surprise people I'm sure there's people you know, in the industry, right? It will go and what you're up to these days Shawnee alarm working for Sei? And again, well, who are ser what you're up to? What do you think people will be surprised to know that sei offer that isn't necessarily obvious to the naked eye? Like what kind of things are you providing? What sort of services are you providing that maybe they would expect a much bigger organisation to be able to do but because you're quite agile, because of the experience and the talent of people that you've brought together, you know, you, you can actually deploy yourselves globally, you can do projects in different countries in different sectors that maybe not everyone would, would would recognise.

Shaun Kokott: 12:26

We very much are positioned, if you will, and within the industry as another certification body. So people would traditionally think okay, so you're doing second party and third party auditing. And maybe you're doing a bit of consultation with certain baits or suppliers to ensure that they meet those standards of those varying auditing bodies, etc, etc. However, as I've mentioned previously, we are very much more than that, at the moment, we're getting very much into the consultation space, and working with both big names and smaller names with within the industry to help deliver projects, if you will. So another area that we are getting very much into and we have clients in the space is around sustainability and CSR, very well known retailer in Asia, who we are helping to set up and deliver low carbon options for their varying products. But in this space, we're very much getting on the ground, if you will, on the farms, seeing how these products are being produced. Seeing how we can improve the the different aspects of that, to ensure that carbon reduction does take place. And we also measuring against traditional farms and stuff like that we are measuring what this low carbon farm is doing and measuring the actual gases of that as well.

Dom Burch: 13:44

I mean, those sorts of projects sound really exciting. And it must be nice to be part of an organisation where you get a real opportunity to I mean, without being over the top to make the world a better place. Right, you know, getting involved in real concrete projects that are actually making measurable differences in terms of greenhouse gases as an example. It must be quite inspiring.

Shaun Kokott: 14:06

Indeed it is. It's one of the reasons that I left the traditional industry, if you will the manufacturing side. And in doing so I did I did look around I did look at retailers, I did look at food service, but I very much believe that will be further advances in both technology and also in the industry and how those can be married together. And that is why I took up a role with within Sei and having been in the company now for just shy of about 18 months. I have seen a massive change in the in the technology. I think that everyone's seeing the whole chat GPT coming in, I think the tech technology and AI that that's going on. But we have seen that is impacting the food industry now as well in a positive way whereby we can in take those technologies and implement them into the industry and and drive change, hence why this project work is so vital. And that will also drive improvements in sustainability, which which we said we were getting into, as well as in other aspects, including some other projects that we're working on.

Dom Burch: 15:16

And that AI I'm glad you raised is I mean, it's the blend, isn't it always of human intelligence Hei, if you like and artificial intelligence, which is, you know, computers, software or whatever, another tool in the toolkit, but you know, you have to be pretty skillful at using that tool. In order to extract the most value out of it. It's not a shortcut is it but it certainly enables organisations that you know, really adopt it and really embrace it in the right way to move faster. And to get better results.

Shaun Kokott: 15:46

You can't just rely on on AI 100% I think if use a simple example is if you go to chat GPT and you type in a prompt and expecting a direct answer, it'll give you probably about 90% of all the information that you require. However, that said, very much knowing what I know, within the industry, I've gone into chapter GPT and typed in some stuff that I know the answer to. And Chuck GPT has given me completely the wrong answer. So you've got to be very cautious with that. And as you say, the the HR human intelligence is definitely key. So whatever the AI spits out, or the results of that AI must be taken and put through HR lens to be able to ensure that the interpretation of that is correct. And that is then delivered to the right clients for the right project.

Dom Burch: 16:42

As you look around the corner, right, and I love talking to industry experts, because you've you're sort of up a ladder looking over the horizon, or you've got a certainly a different vantage point from some of us mere mortals down on the ground floor, right? What can you see coming? What what is it that's giving you energy and a bit of, you know, gusto over the, in this space at the moment, Shawn,

Shaun Kokott: 17:01

it's definitely around, being able to ensure that what we eat as humans is correct is full of nourishment and and does not going to adversely affect our health. And that regard, it's definitely around the food fraud, and how we combat that and drive it forward. And you've seen lately a lot of fraudsters coming into that space, where they're trying to increase weight of product or trying to mimic certain products, or even trying to say that certain meats or certain things and I think everyone caused their minds back to the horse meat scandal where eating horse for a lot of people is not an issue. However, labelling it as beef is an issue so that it's all those things are trying to improve those areas within the food sector and drive the change. And for this AI will play a massive part and help to improve those areas and help improve supply chains improve traceability back to source, etc, etc. One example here is back during the horsemeat scandal, I was working for a food service company at the time, specifically within the meat sector, we determined that between that food service company and the supplier between them, there was 13, that's one three different agents to get that meat from the supplier to the actual to my fuel. So it's things like that, where we can reduce the supply the number of players in the supply chain, take out all those agents or reduce them to an acceptable level, which would be no more than one or two, to ensure that what we are getting is something that is correct. And that is not being labelled as something that it is not. And that we are able to ensure that the right raw material or product is getting to the consumer, as I say, to ensure that human health is at the foremost of everyone's mind. So

Dom Burch: 18:58

we're almost out of time. I know that SCI in the process at the moment of looking for somebody to join the horticulture side of the business. And, you know, I guess the kind of people that we're looking for people are obviously genuinely passionate about horticulture or forestry, right. But they have a desire to really push the boundaries and see what's possible. Because I guess one of the things that makes SCI slightly different is this sense that you know, actually you really can drive innovation you really can bring in new ideas and you really are empowered and enabled to get on and do it right I mean that must be part of the reason you love being part of sei

Shaun Kokott: 19:35

indeed so when I came into the company, I was very much told by the by the owners that the retail and supply chain part is basically my business so they wanted me to to operate that as if I'd set the business up and and as if I was running at full for myself, which is very refreshing in this day and age and which then gave me the personal drive then to ensure that the clients were Bringing in at the types of clients we're bringing in is very much in line with where we see the business going. And with that in mind, when I did come in, it was very much around, okay, we need to do audits. And we need to manage this, and maybe do some consultancy in the auditing space. And very quickly, I understood that that's not really where us as industry experts within Sei, where I expertise lie, we also looking and driving a rise and scanning piece, which very much looks at potential issues coming over the horizon, and how we can mitigate those and sort those out. And yes, there are many tools out there that can do that. But a lot of those tools don't necessarily have the expertise and the human intelligence that we have within sei to to drive that forward. So whoever ACI looks to to to bring into the horticulture side of the business, I would say that that is very much the way that sei would see that part of the business as well. That would mean they would want that individual to come in and sort of run it, how they see fit, of course, there's going to be interventions, and there's going to be a bit of guidance. But overall, it's very, very much down to that individual. So coming into the business, you've got to come in and be able to have the passion and the drive to want to grow the business to want to make it a better place. And before maybe in other areas that you've worked in, where you haven't been able to have that autonomy or being able to do the things that you would like to do to improve areas. This is the space in which to do it. Perfect.

Dom Burch: 21:32

Shawn, thank you so much for coming on to foresight, it's been a pleasure catching up with you. I'm sure this will not be the last time that you're going to be on the SEI podcast with me sharing your expertise and your knowledge. And I know that as some of those projects are allowed to come out into the open from the shadows, people will be excited to hear a bit more detail. But for the time being thank you so much for coming on to the podcast.

Shaun Kokott: 21:52

Thank you Don for your time, I really appreciate it.

Dom Burch: 22:03

And if you're listening to this podcast and you would like to be a guest or you have a suggestion for a thought leader in the supply sector that you think would benefit from our listeners hearing their story then do get in touch with us via the SEI website. You can just Google supply chain insights and you will find us there. And don't forget to subscribe on all the usual podcast channels.