Chief Agriculture Officer Dave Walker - from pig farmer to bobby to auditor

Dave Walker is chief agriculture officer for Supply Chain In-sites (SCI), in this podcast with Dom Burch they discuss Dave's career transition, the role of remote auditing in agriculture, and future trends in the industry.

Career Background and Transition:
Dave shares his journey from being born into a farming family to eventually leading the agriculture division at SCI. His diverse experiences include working on his family's farm, joining the police force, and transitioning to agriculture auditing and certification. His background gives him a unique perspective and empathy towards farmers, which he finds invaluable in his current role.

Remote Auditing:
Dave highlights the innovation of remote auditing, which became a necessity during the COVID-19 pandemic. He played a significant role in establishing remote audits in agriculture, demonstrating that compliance could effectively be assessed via video links. This adaptation allowed for continuous monitoring and maintained standards despite the challenges posed by the pandemic.

Future Trends and Sustainability:
Looking towards the future, Dave discusses the importance of environmental sustainability in agriculture. He notes the industry's slow pace of change and the need for consistent metrics to measure and demonstrate improvements effectively. The discussion also touches on the potential benefits of AI in monitoring animal health, which could lead to earlier interventions and better welfare outcomes.

Trust and Compliance:
Dave emphasises the importance of building trust with customers through transparency and honest communication. He believes in being a partner rather than just a service provider, which helps in understanding and meeting customer needs more effectively.

Transcript

Dom Burch: 0:06

Welcome back to The SCI Foresight podcast with me Dom Burch. This is episode number two. And I'm delighted this week to welcome another one of our own. We've got Dave Walker, who is SCIs head of agriculture. Dave, welcome to the podcast. Now I know you're over there in Filey and I'm over here in sunny Bradford. Tell our lovely listener a bit about you. How did you end up in this world of compliance and certification and agriculture and all this jazzy stuff.

Dave Walker: 0:33

I can't say that it was a thought out roadmap that I had. But it all seems to have come together and loving what I do now. Born into a farming family in Devon with a with a dairy farm. We then move to Scotland where we had crops, beef, outdoor pigs. Then following that business decision, we sold the farm, I went off working for a genetics company with pigs. And then after a while, decided on a total change of career. When I moved to New Hampshire to join the police, that would have been back in 2001, I think it'd be fair to say that having had our own farm and being an owner of that working for other people just didn't really fit for me in agriculture. So moved to Hampshire join the police spent several years down there doing a variety of different things from be officer work to student development, training, coaching, those kinds of things. Before moving back north again, were joined a different force, and then got involved in more of the sort of pursuit and public order. I think the steps that got me to where I am now there was a chap I worked with on shift who was doing audits for red tractor, and asked me if I'd be interested in having a look at it, spend some time thinking whether it was the right thing for me, but in the end, I have a look at it started doing some some audits of the different red tractor schemes. And I was really enjoying doing it. The variety, the the tie back into agriculture, for me having come from there, was was good. I felt I had something to offer to the farmer with with my background, being in agriculture, I had some, some empathy, some understanding. Suppose my time in the police, when it comes to auditing has helped with following an evidence trail. But also as well, I think the main thing from the police it was it was learning how to talk to people on different levels, understanding, you know, listening skills, all those kinds of different factors that just helped me really enjoy the job. After doing that, for a few years, started toying with the idea of leaving the police before my full 30 years to go doing auditing and ventually came to the decision and handed my notice in to go off on a journey to get to know to just be my own boss again, really. So I went auditing on a self employed basis. Soon after that, I was asked if I would like to be a manager for a certification body on one particular scheme. So I took that and enjoyed doing that I got to manage a small team of people deliver on KPIs to the scheme owner, which, which was rewarding. It was a challenging time when I started there, because that's when COVID had just kicked in. So there were challenges around audit delivery. So spent quite a bit of time doing some trials for remote audits in agriculture, which scheme owners UCaaS observed me doing. And we finally got the go ahead to do that. So I'm quite proud of the part I played in that. And then I think, probably just after a year of working for the CB, I was asked if I fancy to another new challenge in helping set up a brand new certification company. And I suppose having taken what was one of the bigger decisions of my life and choosing to leave the police, the security, the salary, the pension, everything like that. And, you know, sort of, to be fair, the early retirement, that service offered at that moment, I thought, Well, why not? You know, the chance to recreate and be a part of the business felt like an opportunity to get back to when we had our own business as a family farming.

Dom Burch: 4:42

Yeah it's real sort of symmetry isn't there to that over over those years. I mean, there's so many things you already said that I want to delve into I'm desperate to know you know what are easier to handle an angry pig or angry you know, punter out of falling out of a pub on a Saturday night but we're not going to go there. But I am interested in this remote auditing thing because is actually, you know, a lot of obviously COVID Terrible, terrible time, but there were a lot of things that were innovative that were sort of forced out of that situation, not just in agriculture, not just in certification, but, but this ability to start to do some of the things that, you know, at best done in person, best done on on site best done in the environment of a field or, you know, in a pack house or whatever it is. But what was it that you realise you could also do remotely using, you know, I guess something like, as simple as Microsoft Teams, right?

Dave Walker: 5:34

Absolutely. So the, the positives for it, I'm a, I'm a big believer that necessity is what drives change, had you tried to bring about remote auditing, without the restrictions that the pandemic caused? I don't think it would have got far because there's, there's always concern and suspicion around video cameras going round farms, and the industry is a traditional industry where change is slow anyway, so I think the pandemic was the necessity that brought about the opportunity for change. And then it was just convincing people that it could work that you could get the detail, we did probably about 25 trial audits that demonstrated that compliance could be seen through video link. And so I suppose some of the challenges are remote locations with poor signal. But we were able to adapt and overcome that by doing partial video link, but then also sending over recordings for bits when signal couldn't work. So it was I think that the opportunity that it brought about, I think it's changed even now I think there's still a there's more openness to photographs been taken to demonstrate, to give examples of good practice, as well as being able to identify or show what maybe could be improved.

Dom Burch: 7:02

But talk to me a little bit about what the agriculture division within sei looks like, because you were employee number one at Sei. Right? So you've been here from the start, and you've helped kind of shape and formulate your part of the business. Right? And and as I understand it sort of sei has, if you like, almost like business owners doesn't it across. It's quite a senior team and quite a flat structure. So tell me about you know, your bid, the agriculture bid, what does it entail? What are the bits that you know you're working on and that you're developing,

Dave Walker: 7:30

the main focus for us is providing the service the customer is happy with, that they feel important, valued. And listening, that you're never going to get far trying to sell people things that they don't need. But it's about being that that reliable partner that is that is calm, collected, when when they're in a crisis, I think it's, it's like an insurance company, you don't know how good they are until you have to ring up and make a claim. I'd like to think that our values in the company when when one of our customers is in a is in a difficult spot, they can ring us and it gets resolved immediately. That's that's what they're looking for. So to go back to more to your point about what it involves. So we've got we've got some customers that centred around animal welfare, they include Greyhound board for Great Britain, just checking that greyhounds in the kennels are looked after, to to good standards that take account of their need for for exercise and the right kind of food and treatment and all that sort of stuff. We then obviously more traditional agricultural stuff with we do some bespoke audits and visits that are helping retailers map risk across their supply chain. And also kind of working as a slight educational piece as well to to engage and give the give the farmer the opportunity to ask the questions they're afraid to ask. Some of that has been brought about through through doing project work with with some of our customers. And then the difficulty to start with as, as a small new company, getting people to trust and believe that you can deliver on a larger scale for them has been a challenge. And I think that we've overcome that by making sure that we've got great people in the business. And that's that, that's what we try to do across all the sectors is get great people, people deal with people, you trust people, and that then becomes the basis for a longer term working relationship. You know, sort of I think, we don't see ourselves as a service provider. We'd like to try and be a partner with our customers so that we can understand what their needs are. And again, that you made reference to the flat structure. I think it's brilliant because The agility that it allows us without having to go through several layers of management to get an idea off the ground, I think I think it'd be fair to say that if someone wants to do something, our view is absolutely, why not? As opposed to thinking of reasons why we can't.

Dom Burch: 10:18

And just picking up on that point, then what What would surprise people about? You know, perhaps they haven't bumped into Sei? Yeah. You know, and they might know some of you from back in the NSF days, right, you know, big certification body, you know, global organisation based in America, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? But what would you know, what would be one of those counterintuitive things about SCI that people go, Oh, really,

Dave Walker: 10:39

I would like to think that it's just the clarity that we offer. The experience within the team. It's a decision making team, it's, there is responsibility, autonomy as well. It's a fairly unique place to work in that if you've got an idea, and you can present the case for it, we support it, let's get on and let's do it. I'd like to think that our customers, they see clarity in our decision making, they see speed, focus, I think the customers that deal with us, because we are owners and founders of the company, it is more than just a job to us. It's it's about our own personal pride. You know, I spent 20 years and the police proud of the career I had. And I never really saw myself changing from that. Now I've moved into another area. I'm here for the long term on this. And I want to build something that I can look back at and say, we've done a good job. We've helped people, we've done the right thing, because it's our company, it's a reflection on ourselves. I would say that we're not shying having the honest conversation with customers, which which can be difficult. But overall, I would rather have the honest, difficult conversation today that maintains the professional working relationship going forward than just trying to please end up trying to please everybody, you please nobody.

Dom Burch: 12:06

I love the idea as well, right? I come from a sub comms background. And it was one of those things right used to pitch your business and you get this amazing agency and the MD and the chief creative officer, and they're always so dynamic. And you were like what, you know, blow socks were blown off. And then of course, the reality is they can't give you their love and attention. Because guess what they're off pitching for the next thing. And you never really get that clarity of thought or that calibre of person. And yet my impression of what sei does is because you were also experienced and you have gold that calibre. Actually customers are kind of getting, they're getting the gold standard team on every interaction, because when they ring you, it's you picking up the phone, not somebody else.

Dave Walker: 12:51

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that, that does make a difference being available for your customers when they need you or need your guidance support. Yeah, I think that that's probably the main thing. For me, it's about creating something that I'm proud to have my name on, and just having that same moral compass about doing the right thing that benefits, everybody in the industry can become trusted because of your, your honesty and your integrity. Without that in certification world, I think you're going to struggle, the opportunity with the company, you know, especially as we expand for new people coming in, if you've got a great set of communication skills, a passion for what you do bility to take the responsibility and the openness in your mind, to think why can't we do that? I think that's the key thing. You know, when people start finding reasons why things can't be done, the focus is the wrong way round.

Dom Burch: 13:51

And that's a lovely segue, you know, what is around the corner, then? What are the things that are beginning to excite you? What are the things that when you go into these team meetings down in Darby, or wherever it is, you guys, you know, congregate, what are the kinds of things that you're saying to other people? Listen, this is where we need to take agriculture. This is where the opportunity is, this is what customers want, actually, and sort of, and there's the sweet spot, right, where you can innovate where you can move into some sort of new territory. But also, you know, that customers are like, you know, they, they're gagging for some of this stuff.

Dave Walker: 14:21

There's no doubt there's a lot of talk at the minute around environmental sustainability. It's difficult to the moment to see just what that looks like. A lot of companies are making a lot of bold promises on what they're going to have, what their commitments are by 2030 2035. How they're going to demonstrate that I'm not too sure. Currently, I've read something where there's about 250 different ways of measuring people's carbon footprints and how that impacts on the environment. And it's just too broad. There are too many different ways of monitoring it that you're not going to get the data that allows one to to be compared with the other, you know, there's there's some farmers I've spoken to that have done some analysis of their own business with two different platforms, and got wildly different outputs. And that that will just bring about distrust. It's about having one set of metrics that everybody can work towards, and understand where they are. So they can demonstrate their improvement, and the direction they're going in, and actually be able to compare themselves with with others. So you've got a proper benchmark of what, what you can do. Now, just what the solution looks like, currently, I think it's a difficult one, and I'm quite sure along the way, I'm sure you're old enough done to remember VHS and Betamax. I'm quite confident there's going to be a lot of Betamax systems in the carbon industry as we go along that were there but just haven't worked out. And I think that what maybe looks like a solution today might not be the right answer for tomorrow. Whilst we're small in that sector, our ability to change direction and pivot, because of the way that company is structured, I think, puts us in a good place to work with the needs of the customers, we're not out there trying to sell them what we have. We are looking to work with them, listen to them about what they need, and put something together that allows them to demonstrate that.

Dom Burch: 16:28

And that honest broker role is really important, isn't it? And I guess the credibility that you have having been, you know, not just in a place but coming from a farming background. So you can, you know, there's a certain look, isn't it a farmer knows a farmer, right, and you can look one another in the eye and kind of go, you understand you've been in my literally my Welly boots, you understand the pressures on Monday, you understand all of the different things I'm trying to juggle here, I'm trying to juggle the cost of feed going up or fertiliser, I'm trying to manage my carbon footprint. I'm trying to create great quality food, I've got price pressures, all this sort of stuff, right? And also trying to navigate this new landscape of, you know, how do you report on all this stuff, and who owns the data, and where's the value in that data? Because, you know, a lot of farmers, I guess it'd be put under pressure from, you know, let's call it out, the retail customers at the far end, who want a bit of their carbon action don't know, they want to be able to offset some of their carbon further down the supply chain. And there's, you know, these natural tensions that exist. But at the end of the day, you've got a lot of great farmers out there trying to do a great job. And I guess your role can often be to help them get credit for that role to be compliant in ways that are quite innovative. With one eye on the future. Yeah, you're looking around the corner and going, you know, this is what's coming in. So get ready for now. Definitely.

Dave Walker: 17:43

And I think that you know that there's a there's an interesting point you make there about demonstrating compliance. And it ties in with what you were talking about innovation. Innovation is all well and good only if the schemes that you are looking to demonstrate compliance to. It's the framework of that allows the innovation to be used to report and demonstrate compliance, then you can move ahead. I think going forward, there's there's a potential need to have a look just to reevaluate is all the information that's being asked for still relevant isn't what the customer sees as being important. And does it actually add any value to the farmer and what they're trying to sell. Now, whilst I think there's no doubt that a lot of audit work is seen as a hinderance there is also an acceptance that in order to maintain customer confidence, there needs to be some level of independent validation that demonstrates that this is a good product, that it's been read to that it's been looked after maintained, whatever sector it is, that gives the customer the confidence that it matches their expectations is how everything is being run on the farm. Does that match with what the supermarket's are telling me about where they source their products from? I think it'll be an evolution or revolution, without a doubt, and trying to bring the innovation in to give the farmer time back from their from their visit, but also recognising that value? And who's going to benefit from that? Is it the retailer, is it just going to become something that the retailer expects? Will it have a value to the farmer to be able to sell their their cut their carbon offsetting ability, and also as well the monitoring of that to make sure that there aren't four or five companies all taking credit for the carbon they're offsetting, you know, you can only have one bite of the cherry. Absolutely.

Dom Burch: 19:48

And let's move a little bit into this notion of earned trust. Right. So, you know, increasingly in some of the sort of manufacturing sites around the around the world, they're sort of thinking about their cars. appliances being data that's always on because they need it themselves in order to run a good operation, and then giving their customers auditors access to that information in a more of a dynamic format, right, they only get to see the bits that need to see. But rather than just sort of coming in once a year, or once every 18 months and doing a Spacek in the kind of traditional way of your clipboard, and you've got your things, that actually some of that data could be available all of the time. So that in a way, like a third of the order is like always on and the traffic light is green. In a way, it's like fantastic, why wouldn't I share that? Now, there's always gonna be a need, isn't there always going to be need to go in person. And sometimes that's about, you know, frankly, mental well being of the farmer, right might be the only visit they've had that week. But also the other things, the softer side, you know, the intuition, the skill of being on a farm and noticing something. But talk to me a bit about that kind of own trust model, because I guess that's beginning of where innovation data, how you sort of share that data will begin to move the sort of auditing sector away from what was, you know, and still is, I guess, a very traditional sort of profession.

Dave Walker: 21:09

Yeah, there's a university we've been working with wouldn't be quite right, but certainly engaged with where they've got artificial intelligence with camera monitoring, of dairy herds that can monitor or detect lameness or a change in walking pattern, time spent feeding time spent lay down, time spent using environmental enrichment for the animals. And that's on all the time. Now, that is, that is a real game changer where that is specific data about each animal, that I could see benefits for the farmer in that if that gives you an alert that identifies an animal is potentially or moving towards being lane, you've got earlier intervention, which increases welfare reduces costs, and maintains production. I think the fact that that is constantly running, can give customer reassurance that that it isn't just a photograph, once a year of how everything looks, we've got an element of 365, monitoring an understanding of what is happening, where you can see trends. But then, as you say, with that data that needs to be the trust from the farm, that that it's interpreted properly by people that understand the industry, as opposed to being sifted through for, you know, microscopic areas of concern to but then be not exaggerated, but certainly viewed in a negative way, as opposed to seeing that actually, the very fact it's identified this as allowed earlier intervention, which is a positive? Absolutely,

Dom Burch: 22:59

I think of it almost in the same way as a supply chain, right, where you're trying to move things across the border. And if you're part of a trusted trading network, you need you've demonstrated sufficient level of compliance, you've got information that's readily available, and on the odd occasion that the spot check that information. It's all in order, everything's correct. And therefore that gives you certain dispensation, you know, it's like you're doing the police, right? You kind of you say, well, that has a much lower risk factor. You know, if I see somebody driving along with a busted brake light, and they're speeding, and I got blacked out windows and the smoke, churning out the back of the exhaust, I'm kind of thinking they might be worth pulling over versus somebody driving along in a nice car, you know, well, within the speed limit, right? Surely, there's that sort of notion that you can't treat everybody the same, and those who are prepared to share their data in a trusted way in the right way. You know, in a way, it's a massive green flag, isn't it rather than a red flag?

Dave Walker: 23:54

Absolutely. If you believe you're doing a good job, why not share everything that you're doing? If the information you're sharing highlights something that wasn't right, you can then demonstrate how quickly that was put right. As opposed to just trying to hide everything, and not having the confidence. And let's be fair, the vast majority are wanting to do a great job and are doing a great job. And I think that even when some things are found to be wrong, I don't think there's farmers out there that would stand behind it and defend it either because it's just wrong. Sometimes that's it can be circumstantial. I don't think it's it's, it's rarely intentional. I think it's maybe just where things have got too much. And there's always more than than one factor. You spoke earlier about, you know, sort of people's mental well being. There was a there was an audit I was doing a few years ago where paperwork was really really poor and missing. But then, as I spoke to him more it became apparent that he had dyslexia couldn't write, his wife had died two years before. So he just said, I haven't been able to do any paperwork. And that was a big thing for him to be able to say that he couldn't do it. And, you know, I'm pleased that he felt that he could say that because it allowed us to, to sign posts into a charity that in the area that helps people with dyslexia with completion of forms to maintain compliance, whether that be in business or, or even just filling forms into claim a bus pass, whatever, whatever it looks like for them. So that was, that was really good. It's a good example of how you can build trust. I think that certification bodies have an important part to play in increasing the level of trust in this information. But then so too, does the retailer has a responsibility and how they're going to use that information, and what value they put on to it to demonstrate, to demonstrate to the farmer that it has a worth. Because ultimately, I think I believe it does.

Dom Burch: 26:11

Absolutely, and I think another great example, really of that blend of human skills, being able to be on farm and actually build that rapport. David, we could literally chat all afternoon right but we can't because I know we're both busy we've got other things to do but it's been absolute pleasure having you on STIs foresight podcast. Thank you so much. Parting Shot, you know, you've got what two thirds of the year half the year already gone almost Blimey. What what's around the corner for the Agriculture team? What what are you looking forward to in the second part of 2024.

Dave Walker: 26:44

So getting to getting out to some of the events, pig and poultry fair will be there while Highlands show other events across the horticulture sector. Looking forward to getting out meeting the customers getting people seeing that, that we're there that we're we're available to them. tenders to chase down we're always seeking out new work to to demonstrate to grow the business allows us to to expand to bring in new people so that they can all come and work for what I believe is the best certification body out there both in the standards that we work to and the environment you work in.

Dom Burch: 27:23

Brilliant. Well, I don't think you're gonna get any argument from me on that point. Dave, thank you so much for coming on the podcast been absolute pleasure catching up.

Dave Walker: 27:30

Brilliant, cheers Dom Thank you